John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me

Spoken to
audience

The context is Jesus describing himself as a good shepherd, who "dedicates that self his on behalf of his sheep."

KJV

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

NIV

John 10:17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

LISTENERS HEARD

In the midst of this [creating one people], the Father cares for me. Since I put out my spirit, I get it back.

MY TAKE

We must give in order to get.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The humor in this verse comes from the various meanings of the Greek words translated as "lay down" and "take/take up."  However, it is in the larger context of the phrase translated as "lay down my life." We have discussed the many meanings of that verse starting in John 10:11.  The meaning shifts again here where we have a new introduction, the Father "loving" the Son," and a new "punchline," that is, ending phrase, "in order to get it back."

Here, he says simply that he places, establishes, or deposits that self of his and he gets that self back. Perhaps he refers to his placement of as a human "self" in history and getting back his more universal position as an eternal being. However, given all the possible meanings of the words translated as "lay" and "take" there is no easy way to say,

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "therefore" is not the common word usually translated as "therefore."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "loves" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • MW -- Missing Word  -- The pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "lay" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "down" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the most common word usually translated as "life."
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
14
  • IP - Inserted Phrase-- The phrase "the reason" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "by" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "this" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "loves" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "is" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW -- Missing Word  -- The pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "lay" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "down" doesn't exist in the source.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "life" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "life" is not the most common word usually translated as "life."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "that" is not shown in the English translation.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "only" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF - Wrong Form -  The "to take" is not an infinitive, but but an active verb, "take."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "up" doesn't exist in the source.
EACH WORD of KJV

Therefore -- (CW) The word translated as "therefore" is from two Greek words that mean "by this. The preposition  means "through," in the midst of," or "by (a cause)." The pronoun means "this" means "from here" or "this/that thing."

doth -- This English helping verb is used to create questions, commands, negative statements, and smooth word flow in translation from Greek

my  -- The word translated as "my" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

love -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

because -- The word translated as "because" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

lay .-- (CW) The Greek verb translated as "lay" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "to put," "to dedicate," "to assign," "to award," and "to place," and in the military, "to bear arms," "to lay down and surrender," but which has many related meanings as well. However, it is not the word usually translated as "give."

down -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "down" in the Greek source.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

life -- (CW) The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, the "self" or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word.

that -- The word translated as "that" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," "when," or as a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" or "because."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

might-- This helping verb "might" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

take -- The word translated as "take" primarily means "take" and "receive" in the same sense that we use "get" to mean "receive" and has many different uses as we use "get" in English. Among these are the ideas of "understanding" and "possessing."

it -- The word translated as "it" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. It matches the form of "self."

again. -- The Greek word translated as "again" means "back," "again," and "contradiction."

EACH WORD of NIV

The reason -- (IP) There is nothing that can be translated as "the reason" in the Greek source.

missing "by"  -- (MW) The untranslated word as "by" means with the genitive "through," "in the midst of," or "by (a cause)." It indicates movement through a place or time, but it also means "by" the sense of "by means of" a given method. With the accusative, it can also be "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of."

missing "this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "this" means "from here" "from there" or "this/that thing/person here/there." It usually comes after the noun, emphasizing it.

my  -- The word translated as "my" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

Father -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

loves -- (CW) The word translated as "love" expresses a lot of different ideas including "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," and "to be contented with." Jesus however, applies it to relationships where we have a duty to care for others: family, God, etc. Another word, also translated as "love," is used to for relationships of affectionate friendship that are more voluntary. To distinguish this word, translating it as "cares for" seems to work best. See this article on love for more information.

me, -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

is -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "is" in the Greek source.

that -- The word translated as "that" introduces a statement of fact or cause, "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

I -- The pronoun "I" is used here. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use accentuates who is speaking "I." Saying "I myself" captures this feeling in English.

missing "myself" -- (MW)  The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "I myself."

lay .-- (CW) The Greek verb translated as "lay" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "to put," "to dedicate," "to assign," "to award," and "to place," and in the military, "to bear arms," "to lay down and surrender," but which has many related meanings as well. However, it is not the word usually translated as "give."

down -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "down" in the Greek source.

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

life -- (CW) The word translated here as "life" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, the "self" or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word.

missing "by"  -- (MW) The untranslated word"that" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," "when," or as a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" or "because."

might-- This helping verb "might" indicates that the verb indicates a possibility, the subjunctive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

only-- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "only" in the Greek source.

to -- (WF) The verb "to" here is makes the following word an infinitive. That is not the form of the verb.

take -- The word translated as "take" primarily means "take" and "receive" in the same sense that we use "get" to mean "receive" and has many different uses as we use "get" in English. Among these are the ideas of "understanding" and "possessing."

it -- The word translated as "it" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English. It matches the form of "self."

up -- (IW) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as "up" in the Greek source.

again. -- The Greek word translated as "again" means "back," "again," and "contradiction."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

διὰ  [88 verses](prep) "Through" is dia, which means with the genitive "through," "in the midst of," "in a line (movement)," "throughout (time)," "by (causal)," "for (causal)," "among," and "between." With the accusative, it can also be "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of." --  The preposition translated as "through" means with the genitive "through," "in the midst of," or "by (a cause)." It indicates movement through a place or time, but it also means "by" the sense of "by means of" a given method. With the accusative, it can also be "thanks to," "because of,"  "by reasons of," and "for the sake of."

τοῦτο [93 verses](adj sg neut acc) "That" is touto, which means "from here," "from there," "this [thing] there," or "that [person] here." -- The word translated as "this" means "from here" "from there" or "this/that thing/person here/there." It usually comes after the noun, emphasizing it.

με [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "My" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

πατὴρ [191 verses](noun sg masc nom) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

ἀγαπᾷ [32 verses](3rd sg pres subj act) "Love" is agapao, which means "to be fond of," "to greet with affection," "to persuade," "to caress," "to prize," "to desire," "to be pleased with," and "to be contended with."  This love is more associated with affection in relationships where we are obligated. Jesus uses another word. Jesus uses another word, phileô, which means "to love," "to like," "to be fond of doing," and "to show affection" to express "love" in the sense of like and dislike.He never uses the word eros, which describes romantic, sexual love.

ὅτι [332 verses](adv/conj) "Because" is hoti, which introduces a statement of fact "with regard to the fact that," "seeing that," and acts as a causal adverb meaning "for what," "because," "since," and "wherefore."

ἐγὼ [162 verses](pron 1st sg masc nom) "I" is ego, which is the first-person singular pronoun meaning "I." It also means "I at least," "for my part," "indeed," and for myself.

τίθημι [24 verses](verb 1st sg pres ind act )  "Put" is tithemi which means "to put," "to place," "to propose," "to suggest," "o deposit," "to set up," "to dedicate," "to assign," "to award," "to agree upon," "to institute," "to establish," "to make," "to work," "to prepare oneself," "to bear arms [military]," "to lay down and surrender [military]," "to lay in the grave," "to bury," and "to put words on paper [writing]," and a metaphor for "to put in one's mind."

τὴν [821 verses](article sg fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ψυχήν [33 verses](noun sg fem acc) "Life" is psyche, which means "breath," "life," "self," "personality," "spirit," and "soul." It is used for different aspects of "self," the emotional self, the conscious self, the intellectual self. It has a clear sense of the conscious self and is often translated as "life" in the Gospels. It is also used to describe "the spirit" of things. It is also often translated as "soul." --The word translated here as "soul" is psyche, a common word in Greek, familiar in English, meaning "life," "soul," "consciousness," and "a sense of self." Jesus uses it to specifically mean our identity in our worldly life, the role we play on earth, what we might call the "social self," or what we commonly call our "ego." See this article for detail about this word.

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

πάλιν [23 verses](adv) "Again" is palin, which means "back," "backward," "contradiction," "again," "once more," and "in turn."

λάβω [54 verse](1st sg aor subj act) "I might take" is lambano means to "take," "take hold of," "grasp," "seize," "catch," "overtake," "find out," "detect," "take as,"  in Logic, "assume," "take for granted," "understand," "undertake," "take in," "hold," "get," "receive [things]," "receive hospitably," "receive in marriage," "receive as produce," "profit," "admit," "initiate," "take hold of," "lay hold on," "seize and keep hold of," "obtain possession of," "lay hands upon," "find fault with," "censure," "to apprehend with the senses," and "to take hold of." It is also specifically used to mean "seized with emotion."

αὐτήν. [720 verses](adj sg fem acc) "It" is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

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