John 15:24 If I had not done among them

Spoken to
Apostles

After the Last Supper, Jesus gives his final message to the apostles. Jesus just said that those who hate him hate the father.

KJV

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

NIV

John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.

LISTENERS HEARD

If I didn't perform these deeds among them,  those no other did, didn't have a fault. Now, however, they have not only watched but also hated not only me but also that Father of mine.

MY TAKE

When we envy what we see in others, it leads us to hatred, not only of them, but also of the Divine.

GREEK ORDER

If these deeds I didn't perform among them, those no other did, a fault they didn't have. Now, however, not only have they seen but also hated not only me but that father of mine.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The word translated as "sin" here means "mistake," "fault," and "error," not specifically a moral failing. As with John 15:22, which the first part of this verse echoes, this is a good example of why. We "have" faults, not sins.  Notice how the NIV has to change the verb from "have" to a whole phrase, "be guilty of" to make it work. However, Jesus changes the context here. The first part of the verse focuses on him alone, performing deeds no one else did.  The "fault" is hating him after watching his deeds.

This second part of this verse is dominated by a lot of "and"  conjunctions. In a series like this, the sense is not as much "both...also" are translated, but "not only..but also." So Jesus is saying that people "not only watched but also hated." This creates a feeling that their watching him engendered their hatred.  Then Jesus ends by saying they hated "not only me but also the Father." The "that Father of mine" is the punchline, echoing the previous verse.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "had" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "man" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "had" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sin" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "seen" is not the common word usually translated as "see."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
12
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "had" indicates the past perfect tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "which" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "would" indicates a future tense, but the tense is something that happens at a specific point in time (past, present, or future).
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "be" should be something more like "have."
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The word "guilty of" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sin" does not capture the word's general meaning.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "and" should be something more like "not."
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "yet" should be something more like "now."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "both" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "watched" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "and" is not shown in the English translation.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "father" is not shown in the English translation.
EACH WORD of KJV

If -- The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not when used with the subjective negative. It also means "if ever" and "whenever." However, when used in an "if" clause, the verb is the subjunctive form of possibility. When citing a fact with a declarative verb, indicative, instead of one of possibility with the objective negative, the sense is more "since" or "as sure as." When this word is paired with the conjunction translated as "but" or "however," the structure works like an "if then" statement in English. With an imperative, it is used to express a wish. The sense is "I wish that."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

had -- (WT) This helping verb "had" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

not -- The negative used here is the Greek negative of a subjective opinion, commands, and requests. The sense is that "you don't want" or "think" something, not that it isn't done or thought.   With the verb "to be," the sense is "doesn't seem." When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words. This is the negative used with commands or requests. Used with an imperative to express a will or wish. Used in negative "when" and "if" clauses.

done  -- The Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly.

among -- The word translated as "among" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

them -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective. In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there." This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

works -- The Greek word translated as "works" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

which -- The word translated as "which" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

none -- The Greek adjective translated as "none" also means "no one," "nothing," and other negative pronouns. It is used by Jesus more like a negative pronoun than an adjective.  However, to avoid the English double-negative, we translate it as its opposite "anyone" when used with another Greek negative.

other --  The word translated as "other" means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further."  In a series, this means "one...another."

man -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "man" in the Greek source. However, the "other" is masculine, but that is the universal from.

did,   -- The Greek word translated as "did" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly.

they-- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

had -- (WT) This helping verb "had" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

not -- The Greek word translated as "not" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words. 

had -- The word translated as "had" means to "have," "possess," "bear," "keep close," "hold in," "have means to do,"  "to have due to one," or "keep" and many specific uses. This verb isn't used to form past tenses as the helper verb does in English. Nor does it has the sense of "must" when used with infinitives.

sin: -- (CW) The word translated as "sins" means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin," having no sense of doing malicious evil in Greek. The best English translation is "mistake," "fault," or "failure" rather than what we commonly think of as the evils of "sin." See this article for more information and context.

but -- The Greek word translated as "but" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

now -- The Greek word translated as "now" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

have -- This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past.

both  -- The Greek word translated as "both" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

seen -- (CW) "See" is from a Greek verb, which means "to see with the eyes," "to look," and "to observe." It has the sense of sighting something. Jesus uses this word often to mean "watch out" or "look out" as a warning but another verb is better translated as "watch" so "look" works more consistently.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

hated -- "Hated" is a Greek verb meaning "to hate." The word is not primarily an emotion as it is in English. Instead, it is a negative state, not being devoted to someone and not liking them. See this article on Greek concepts of love for more information.

both  -- The Greek word translated as "both" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

me -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

Father. -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

EACH WORD of NIV

If -- The "if" here expresses a condition but it means nothing regarding whether that condition is met or not when used with the subjective negative. It also means "if ever" and "whenever." However, when used in an "if" clause, the verb is the subjunctive form of possibility. When citing a fact with a declarative verb, indicative, instead of one of possibility with the objective negative, the sense is more "since" or "as sure as." When this word is paired with the conjunction translated as "but" or "however," the structure works like an "if then" statement in English. With an imperative, it is used to express a wish. The sense is "I wish that."

I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.

had -- (WT) This helping verb "had" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past. This is not the tense of the verb here.

not -- The negative used here is the Greek negative of a subjective opinion, commands, and requests. The sense is that "you don't want" or "think" something, not that it isn't done or thought.   With the verb "to be," the sense is "doesn't seem." When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words. This is the negative used with commands or requests. Used with an imperative to express a will or wish. Used in negative "when" and "if" clauses.

done  -- The Greek word translated as "to do" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly.

among -- The word translated as "among" means "in," "within," "with" (an instrument), "by" (near), "by" (means of), "during" (time),  or "among"  with a dative object as the one here.  With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." When referring to time, it means "during." It can mean "on," "at," or "by" in the sense of "near."

them -- The word translated as "his" is the Greek word commonly translated as third-person pronouns in English.  The word means "the same" when used as an adjective. In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there." This pronoun follows the noun so "of his."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

works -- The Greek word translated as "works" means "deeds," "actions," and "things" in the sense of "every thing."

missing "which"  -- (MW) The untranslated word  "which" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

no one -- The Greek adjective translated as "no one" also means "no one," "nothing," and other negative pronouns. It is used by Jesus more like a negative pronoun than an adjective.  However, to avoid the English double-negative, we translate it as its opposite "anyone" when used with another Greek negative.

else --  The word translated as "other" means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further."  In a series, this means "one...another."

did,   -- The Greek word translated as "did" has the primary meaning of "making" or producing" something or "causing" or "performing" as service. When it means It describes a productive action.  In English, "do" is also frequently a helper verb. This Greek word is not used as broadly.

they-- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

would -- (WT) This helping verb "would" indicates that the past tense of "will," this is not the tense of the verb here.

not -- The Greek word translated as "not" is the Greek negative used to deny objective facts, not opinions. It means "no," "not," or"no truly." It makes a negative statement of fact. Adding "really" to the sentence captures the same idea. When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words. 

be -- (WW) The word translated as "be" means to "have," "possess," "bear," "keep close," "hold in," "have means to do,"  "to have due to one," or "keep" and many specific uses.

guilty of -- (IW) There is nothing that can be translated as "guilty" in the Greek source.

sin: -- (CW) The word translated as "sins" means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin," having no sense of doing malicious evil in Greek. The best English translation is "mistake," "fault," or "failure" rather than what we commonly think of as the evils of "sin." See this article for more information and context.

and -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "but" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.  It can also be an explanation of cause ("so").

yet -- (WW)  The Greek word translated as "yet" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."

they -- This is from the third-person, plural form of the verb.

have -- This helping verb "have" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past.

missing "both"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "both" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

missing "watched"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "watched" means "to see with the eyes," "to look," and "to observe." It has the sense of sighting something. Jesus uses this word often to mean "watch out" or "look out" as a warning but another verb is better translated as "watch" so "look" works more consistently.

missing "and "  -- (MW) The untranslated word "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

hated -- "Hated" is a Greek verb meaning "to hate." The word is not primarily an emotion as it is in English. Instead, it is a negative state, not being devoted to someone and not liking them. See this article on Greek concepts of love for more information.

both  -- The Greek word translated as "both" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

me -- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition. As the object of a preposition, an accusative object indicates movement towards something or a position reached as a result of that movement.

and -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

my -- "My" is the first-person possessive singular pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of mine." 

missing "the/this"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

Father. -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

εἰ [90 verses](conj) "If" is ei, which is the particle used to express conditions "if" (implying nothing about its fulfillment) or indirect questions, "whether." It also means "if ever," "in case," and "whenever." In citing a fact, it can mean "as sure as" or "since."  It is combined with various conjunctions to create derivative conditions. When appearing as εἰ δὲ (literally, "if however") the sense is "if this...then that." The construction  εἰ οὖν has the sense of "if so." However, it is also used to express a wish. After verbs of wonder, delight, indignation, disappointment, contentment, and similar emotions, the sense is "that" (hoti)  with the indicative (not subjunctive). 

τὰ [821 verses](article pl neut acc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

ἔργα [31 verses] (noun pl neut acc) "Works" is ergon, which means "works," "tasks," "deeds," "actions," "thing," and "matter." 

μὴ [447 verses](conj) "Not" is me , which is the negative used in prohibitions and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no." As οὐ (ou) negates fact and statement; μή rejects, οὐ denies; μή is relative, οὐ absolute; μή subjective, οὐ objective. With pres. or aor. subj. used in a warning or statement of fear, "take care" It can be the conjunction "lest" or "for fear that." Used before tis with an imperative to express a will or wish for something in independent sentences and, with subjunctives, to express prohibitions.

ἐποίησα [168 verses](verb 1st sg aor ind act) "I had...done" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do." The accusative object is what is made. Double accusative is to do something to someone. When it has a genitive object, it means "made from." When it doesn't have an object, the verb is translated as  "perform" or simply "do." When used with an accusative infinitive, it means to "cause" or "bring about." A dative object means "made with." With the preposition eis it means "made into."

ἐν [413 verses](prep) "In" is en, which means, with a dative object, "in," "on," "at," "by," "among," "within," "surrounded by," "in one's hands," "in one's power," "during,"  and "with." With the accusative, it means "into," "on," and "for." Referring to time, it means. "in the course of" or "during." 

αὐτοῖς, [720 verses] (adj pl masc/neut dat) "To them" is autos, which means "the same," and the reflexive pronouns, "myself," "yourself," "himself," "herself," "itself," or the oblique case of the pronouns, "him," "her," and "it." In the plural, "they," "them," and "their." It also means "one's true self," that is, "the soul" as opposed to the body and "of one's own accord." In the adverbial form, it  means "just here" or "exactly there."

[294 verses](pron pl neut acc ) "Which" is hos, which means "this," "that," "he," "she," "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.

οὐδεὶς [69 verses](adj sg neut nom /acc) "Nothing" is oudeis which means "no one," "not one," "nothing," "naught," "good for naught," and "no matter."

ἄλλος [34 verses](adj sg masc nom) "Other man" is allos, which means "another," "one besides," "of another sort," "different," "other than what is true," "as well," "besides," with numerals: "yet," "still," "further," "of other sort," "other than what is," "untrue," "unreal," "other than right," "wrong," "bad," "unworthy," [with an article] "the rest," "all besides," and [in series] "one...another."

ἐποίησεν[168 verses](verb 3rd sg aor ind act) "Did" is poieo, which means "to make," "to produce," "to create," "to bring into existence," "to bring about," "to cause," "to perform," "to render," "to consider," "to prepare," "to make ready," and "to do." The accusative object is what is made. Double accusative is to do something to someone. When it has a genitive object, it means "made from." When it doesn't have an object, the verb is translated as  "perform" or simply "do." When used with an accusative infinitive, it means to "cause" or "bring about." A dative object means "made with."

ἁμαρτίαν [28 verses](noun sg fem acc )"Sins" is hamartia, which means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin."

οὐκ [269 verses](partic) "Not" is ou , the negative adverb for facts and statements, negating both single words and sentences.  The other negative adverb, μή applies to will and thought; οὐ denies, μή rejects; οὐ is absolute, μή relative; οὐ objective, μή subjective.

εἴχοσαν[181 verses](verb 3rd pl pres ind act) "Had" is echo, which means "to have," "to hold," "to possess," "to keep," "to have charge of," "to have due to one," "to maintain," "to hold fast," "to hold in," "to bear," "to carry," "to keep close," "to keep safe," and "to have means to do." In aorist, it can mean "acquire," or "get." The main sense when it has an object is "to have" or "to hold." It can also mean "to without" or "keep back" a thing.

νῦν [31 verses](adv) "Now" is nyn (nun), which means "now," "at the present moment," "at the present time," "just now," "presently," and "as it is."

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "But" is de which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of cause ("so"). With the Greek word for "if" the sense is "if...than."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "both" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

ἑωράκασιν [20 verses](verb 3rd pl perf ind act) "Seen" is from horao, which means "to see with the eyes," "to look," "to observe," "see," "aim," "have sight," "behold," "keep in sight," and as a metaphor of mental sight, "discern," and "perceive." Jesus often uses it as a warning as we would use "watch out" or "look out."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "Both" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

μεμισήκασιν [20 verses](verb 3rd pl perf ind act) "Hated"is miseo, which means "to hate" and in passive, "to be hated."
καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "Both" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

ἐμὲ [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means  "me."

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

τὸν [821 verses](article sg masc acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  -

πατέρα [191 verses](noun sg masc acc) "Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers."

μου [239 verses](adj sg masc gen) "Me" is from mou (emou), which means "me," and "mine." As a genitive object means movement away from something or a position away from something else.

Front Page Date