After the Last Supper, Jesus prays for the Apostles after saying he accomplished the work.
John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
And now recognize me, you yourself, Father, issuing from yourself with that recognition that I had over/before this, the society's existing issuing from you.
Jesus's reputation comes from the same source as the social order.
The translators want this to primarily mean Jesus was with the father from the beginning and it kind of says that, but it says a lot more. A complicated structure leads to the punchline involving the double meanings of two prepositions. The word translated as "with/in the presence of" also means "issuing from." It is used both at the beginning and end of the verse. In the context of requesting recognition, "issuing from" identifies that source of recognition. Jesus even uses a special reflexive preposition "yourself" after the preposition and the subject "you yourself" to emphasize this idea. The next preposition means "before" in time, as translated, but it also means "before" in order of preference. In English, we say "over" to indicate a preference. Jesus is saying, in a light-hearted way, that his father preferred him over and before the world or this society. The time aspect is emphasized by change in tenses, the perfect for "I had" and the present for the final verb "existing." He could have used a noun, but the infinitive has a tense where nouns don't. This translates as "this, this world's existing," to maintain the verb's present tense. However, the world's existence is also recognized at the end of the verse as "issuing from you" but using the common pronoun "you."
The verb for "glorify" means to "imagine," "expect", "think", and "suppose." Jesus often uses it in the sense of "recognize" as we use the word to mean "honor," but with the additional sense of identifying someone. The term translated as "world" actually means the "world order" that is, the powers-that-be, not the planet. See this article for more.
The word "with" used in this verse three times has a couple different sources, but the proposition translated as "with" more likely means something else, most likely "beside" because it is not the common preposition usually translated as "with."
- IW - Inserted Word -- The word "O" doesn't exist in the source.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "glorify" is more like "recognize."
- MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so it needs a "yourselves" after "you" for emphasis.
- CW --Confusing Word -- The "with" is not the common preposition usually translated as "with."
- CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "with" is not the previous preposition but a dative form.
- CW - Confused Word -- The verb translated as "glory" should be something more like "recognition."
- CW --Confusing Word -- The "with" is not the common word usually translated as "with."
- WP -- Wrongly Placed -- The proposition phrase doesn't appear here but at the end of the verse.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" after the preposition is not shown in the English translation.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "the/this" before "existing" is not shown in the English translation.
- WF - Wrong Form - The "was" is not in the form of an active verb, but an infinitive acting as a noun describing the action.
- WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "was" indicates the past tense, but the tense of the infinitive is present.
- CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "glorify" is more like "recognize."
- MW -- Missing Word -- This subject pronoun duplicates information in the verb so "you yourself."
- CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "your" is not the simple pronoun by a reflexive, "yourself."
- CW --Confusing Word -- The "with" is not the common preposition usually translated as "with."
- CW - Confusing Word -- The word translated as "with" is not the previous preposition but a dative form.
- CW - Confused Word -- The verb translated as "glory" should be something more like "recognition."
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "which" is not shown in the English translation
- CW --Confusing Word -- The "with" is not the common word usually translated as "with."
- WP -- Wrongly Placed -- The proposition phrase doesn't appear here but at the end of the verse.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" after the preposition is not shown in the English translation.
- MW - Missing Word -- The word "anything" is not shown in the English translation.
- WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "began" should be something more like "existing."
- WF - Wrong Form - The "was" is not in the form of an active verb, but an infinitive acting as a noun describing the action.
- WT - Wrong Tense - The verb "was" indicates the past tense, but the tense is present.
And -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."
now, -- The Greek word translated as "now" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."
O -- (IW) This word is added to indicate that Jesus is using a Greek word form of address.
Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers". It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.
glorify -- (CW) The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work. More about this word in this article.
thou -- The "you" here in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject. Since, as the subject of the sentence, it is part of the verb, its explicit use repeats the idea of who is speaking, "you." Saying "you yourself" captures this feeling in English.
missing "yourself" -- (MW) The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."
me-- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition.
with -- (CW) -- The Greek preposition translated as "with" has many meanings, many of which depend on the case of its object. With the dative, the sense is static, "beside," "by the side of," "near," and "before." It is not the Greek preposition "with."
thine own self - The "yourself" is in the dative form of the second-person reflexive pronoun. Here the sense is "caring of yourself" or, as we would say in English, caring for yourself.
with -- (CW) This is from the indirect object form of the following words, not the preposition used above. The translator must decide which preposition to use in English: a "to," "with," "in," "of," "as," "by," "for," "at" or "on," can all be used depending on the context. This is confusing because it is not the preposition translated as "with" earlier.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") that the English "the." See this article for more.
glory -- (CW) The Greek noun translated as "glory" means "expectation", "notion", "opinion", "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in translating the Bible. The words "recognition", "reputation", and "an honor" come closest to capturing the way Christ uses the word.
which -- The word translated as "which" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun ("the one that), especially a connective pronoun ("the one that") introducing a dependent clause.
I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.
had -- The word translated as "have" means to "have", "possess", "bear", "keep close", "have means to do", "to have due to one", or "keep" and many specific uses.
with -- (WP, CW) The word translated as "with," with the dative, as it is here, has a static sense, "beside," "by the side of," "near," and "before." This phrase appears at the end of the verse, likely as the beginning of the next verse since it is redundant here.
thee -- The word for "you" is the indirect object form of the singular, second-person pronoun.
before -- The word translated as "to" means "towards", "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "against," and several other types of "before." With verbs of seeing it specifically means "towards."
missing "the/this" -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." Here, it precedes an infinitive, making The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") that the English "the." See this article for more.
world -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words. The noun and its article are in the form of objects, but the acts as subject of the infinitive.
was. -- (WF, WT) The verb "was" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. The form is not an active verb, but an infinite. The tense is present, not past.
And -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis ("also"). In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."
now, -- The Greek word translated as "now" means "now," "at the present moment,""presently," and "as it is."
Father, -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers". It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.
glorify -- (CW) The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The verb form also has the sense of spreading someone's good reputation, so "publicized and "proclaimed" also work. More about this word in this article.
missing "you yourself" -- (MW) The subjective pronoun repeats the information in the verb so it should be repeated in English like "you yourself."
me-- "Me" is the regular first-person pronoun in Greek as the object of the verb or preposition.
in-- The word translated as "in...presence," with the dative, as it is here, has a static sense, "in the presence of," "by the side of," "near," and "before."
your -- (CW) The "your" is the Greek second-second person reflexive pronoun. Since this is a reflexive pronoun, this should be translated as "in the presence of yourself."
presence -- This completes the idea of the preposition.
with -- (CW) This is from the dative form of the following words. It is not the preposition used above.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") that the English "the." See this article for more.
glory -- (CW) The Greek noun translated as "glory" means "expectation", "notion", "opinion", "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in translating the Bible. The words "recognition", "reputation", and "an honor" come closest to capturing the way Christ uses the word.
missing "which" -- (MW) The untranslated word ."which" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun ("the one that), especially a connective pronoun ("the one that") introducing a dependent clause.
I -- This is from the first-person, singular form of the verb.
had -- The word translated as "have" means to "have", "possess", "bear", "keep close", "have means to do", "to have due to one", or "keep" and many specific uses.
with -- (WP, WW) The word translated as "with," with the dative, as it is here, has a static sense, "by the side of," "near," and "before."
you -- The word for "you" is the indirect object form of the singular, second-person pronoun.
before -- The word translated as "to" means "towards", "by reason of (for)," "before" both in time and place, "against," and several other types of "before." With verbs of seeing it specifically means "towards."
missing "the/this" -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." Here, it precedes an infinitive, making The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. This article makes the following infinitive a verbal noun.
the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this", "that", "these", "those") that the English "the." See this article for more.
world -- Jesus uses the word translated as "the world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.
began -- (WW, WF, WT) The verb "began" here is the common form of "to be" in Greek. It means to have a certain characteristic or remain in a certain condition. It also equates terms or assigns characteristics. The form is not an active verb, but an infinite used as a verbal noun. In English, we use the gerund/participle in the same way, "existing." The tense is present, not past.
καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."
νῦν [31 verses](adv) "Now" is nyn (nun), which means "now," "at the present moment," "at the present time," "just now," "presently," and "as it is."
δόξασόν [18 verses] (2nd sg aor imperat act) "Glorify" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them.
με [49 verses](pron 1st sg masc acc) "Me" is eme, which is the objective first-person, objective, singular pronoun that means "me."
σὺ [36 verses](pron 2nd sg nom) "Thee/you" is su , which means "you" in the second-person pronoun in form of a singular subject.
πάτερ, [191 verses](noun sg masc voc) "The Father" is pater, which means "father," "grandfather," "author," "parent," and "forefathers." -- "Father" is the Greek noun that means "father" or any male ancestor so "forefathers." It is the word that Christ uses to address his own Father.
παρὰ [45 verses](prep) "With" is para, has many meanings, which depend on the case of its object and the sense of the verb.With the genitive, the sense is always motion, "from the side of," "from beside," "issuing from", and generally "from." With the dative, the sense is always static, "by the side of," "near," "in the presence of," and "before." With the accusative, its has a number of specialized meanings depending on the character of the verb, with coming/going "near," "beside," with placing "side-by-side," as a metaphor, "like" or "as a parody of, of comparison, "compared with" and many more including "along", "past", "beyond", "parallel (geometry)", "precisely at the moment of (time)," and "throughout (time)."
σεαυτῷ (pro 2nd masc sg dat) [3 verses] (pro 2nd masc sg dat) "Yourself" is seautou, which means "of yourself." It is the reflexive form of the second-person pronoun.
τῇ [821 verses](article sg fem dat) "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.
δόξῃ [26 verses](noun sg fem dat) "Glory" is doxa, which means "expectation," "notion," "opinion," "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in translating the Bible. The words "recognition," "honor." and "reputation" come closest to capturing the Greek word, but Jesus uses it only in the most positive sense so "prominence" may come closest. -- (CW) The Greek noun translated as "glory" means "expectation," "notion," "opinion," "repute," and "popular repute." Translations as "glory" or "splendor" are found primarily in translating the Bible. Though it can have both a positive ("shining reputation") and negative ("bad repute") in Greek, Jesus only uses it to describe the word's "magnificent" aspect. The verb form has the sense of "recognize," but "recognition" while positive in the sense of rewarding people simply means knowing them in the noun form.
ᾗ [294 verses](pron sg fem dat) "Which" is hos, which means "this," "that," "he," "she," "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings. -- The word translated as "who" is a demonstrative pronoun ("this" "that"), but it often acts as a pronoun "which," "what," "who," "whosoever," "where," "for which reason," and many similar meanings.
εἶχον [181 verses](1st sg imperf ind act) "I had" is echo, which means "to have," "to hold," "to possess," "to keep," "to have charge of," "to have due to one," "to maintain," "to hold fast," "to hold in," "to bear," "to carry," "to keep close," "to keep safe," and "to have means to do." In aorist, it can mean "acquire," or "get." The main sense when it has an object is "to have" or "to hold." It can also mean "to without" or "keep back" a thing.
πρὸ [12 verses](prep) "Before" is pro, which means (of place) "before," "in front of," (of time) "before," (of preference) "before" in time, "rather than," "more than," and so on.
τοῦ [821 verses](article sg neut gen) "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").
τὸν [821 verses](article sg masc acc)"The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article; without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.
κόσμον [63 verses](noun sg masc acc) "World" is kosmos, which mean "order," "good order," "ruler," "civilization," "world order," "universe," and "the world of men." It is a form of the is verb kosmeô, which means "to order," "to arrange," "to rule," "to adorn" (especially women), and "to equip." It especially means controlling and arranging an army.
εἶναι .[614 verses](verb pres inf act) "Is" is eimi, which means "to be," "to exist," "to be the case," of circumstance and events "to happen," and "is possible." With the genitive object, the sense is "belongs to." It can also mean "must" with a dative.
παρὰ [45 verses](prep) "With" is para, has many meanings, which depend on the case of its object and the sense of the verb.With the genitive, the sense is always motion, "from the side of," "from beside," "issuing from", and generally "from." With the dative, the sense is always static, "by the side of," "near," "in the presence of," and "before." With the accusative, its has a number of specialized meanings depending on the character of the verb, with coming/going "near," "beside," with placing "side-by-side," as a metaphor, "like" or "as a parody of, of comparison, "compared with" and many more including "along", "past", "beyond", "parallel (geometry)", "precisely at the moment of (time)," and "throughout (time)."
σοὶ [81 verses](pron 2nd sg dat) "You" is soi which is the singular, second-person pronoun, "you," in the form of an indirect pronoun.
Plays on different meanings of para which could mean "before" in time and preference.