Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one

Spoken to
audience

One of his disciples asks him to teach them to pray. Jesus ends the Lord's Prayer.

KJV

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

NIV

Luke 11:4 Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation.

LISTENERS HEARD

And let go for us these mistakes of ours also because we ourselves let go of everyone owing to us. Also you shouldn't bring us into testing. 

MY TAKE

We have to let go our our mistakes and those of others, with the help of the Divine.

GREEK ORDER

καὶ   ἄφες  ἡμῖν   τὰς    ἁμαρτίας ἡμῶν,   καὶ γὰρ        αὐτοὶ        ἀφίομεν       παντὶ       ὀφείλοντι ἡμῖν:
And let go for us these mistakes  of ours also because ourselves we let go of everyone owing      to us.

καὶ    μὴ           εἰσενέγκῃς  ἡμᾶς εἰς   πειρασμόν.
Also shouldn't bring            us    into testing. 

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The word translated as "forgive" primarily means "to let go," "to let drop," "to leave alone," or "to send away."  More about this word in this article.

The word translated as "sin" is a form of a word that means "to fail in one's purpose," "to neglect," and "to be deprived of." It has no sense of doing malicious evil in Greek. The best English translation is "mistake," "fault," or "failure" rather than what we commonly think of as the evils of "sin." See this article for more information and context.

The Greek word usually translated as "and" appears here but it untranslated in the KJV. Though it can also mean "also," Jesus often uses it to mean "also" when it is not used as a conjunction.

The word translated as "we" is the Greek word commonly translated as pronouns in English, but it has a few shades of meaning our pronouns do not have. Since it is part of the verb (or should be), its use emphasizes the "we" are we would say "we ourselves." 

The word translated as "forgive" means "to let go" or "to let drop," or "to leave alone." It is the same word used at the beginning of the verse. This word seems to be misspelled in the Greek source that I use. 

There is an untranslated "ourselves" in the "we forgive" clause, the sense is "we ourselves let go of everyone owing us."

The word translated as "lead"also means "bring into" or "carry in." Unlike many of the other verbs in the Lord's Prayer, it isn't in the form of a command or a request, though it is translated that way. Its form is of something that "might" or "should" happen, or, with the negative, "shouldn't" or "might not."

 - "Us" is the 1st person, plural, accusative pronoun. Jesus only uses this pronoun in seven verses, most often in the Lord's Prayer.

The negative "not" used here is the Greek negative of a subjective opinion, commands, and requests. The sense is that "you don't want" to do something, not that it isn't done or don't think something that might be true. If it wasn't done or wasn't true, the objective negative of fact would be used.

The word translated as "into" means "into" when it refers to a place but "up to" referring to time. However, here it seems to be referring to a limit, where the sense is "as far as."

The Greek word translated as "temptation" doesn't primarily means that. It means a "trial" as in a "worry" or "testing." The verb form means "to try" or "to test" something. The idea of "temptation" comes from the sense of a trial as testing but, in English, a "temptation" means something desirable. The Greek word has none of this meaning. Christ doesn't use this term but another Greek word to refer to court trials. Again, this is an uncommon word in Christ's teaching. In my search of the Greek, it only shows up in the NT and Christian writings afterward. This means that thw word may have been coined the word from the verb form.

 

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
10
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "forgive" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "these before "sins" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sin" does not capture the word's general meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "ourselves" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "forgive" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The "that" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The verb "indebted" was incorrectly translated from an active voice to a passive one.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This  "indebted" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- "Temptation" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • OS -- Outdated Source -- The Greek word translated as "but deliver us from evil." existed in the KJV Greek source but not the source we use today.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
11
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "and" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "forgive" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "these before "sins" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "sin" does not capture the word's general meaning.
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "ourselves" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- The "forgive" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The "who" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "sins" should be something more like "owing."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This  "sins" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing."
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "against" should be something more like "to."
  • CW --Confusing Word -- "Temptation" does not capture the word's specific meaning.
EACH WORD of KJV

And -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

forgive -- " (CW) The word translated as "forgive" primarily means "to let go" or "to send away."  It can also mean "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. It has the sense of leaving something alone and letting it drop. See this article for more.

us  - "Us" is the first person plural pronoun, "we," "us" as an indirect object.

missing "these"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

our -- The "our" is the plural possessive first-person pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of ours."

sins; -- (CW) The word translated as "sins" means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin," having no sense of doing malicious evil in Greek. The best English translation is "mistake," "fault," or "failure" rather than what we commonly think of as the evils of "sin." See this article for more information and context.

for -- ---The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause." 

missing "ourselves" -- (MW)   "Ourselves" is the nominative case of the third-person, plural adjective that means "themselves," "ourselves," "the same," "one's true self," and "the soul" as opposed to the body. While other forms of this word are used as pronouns, this form is used for emphasis, since the subject pronoun is part of the verb.

we -- This is from the first-person, plural form of the verb.

also  - The Greek word translated as "also" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

forgive -- " (CW) The word translated as "forgive" primarily means "to let go" or "to send away."  It can also mean "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. It has the sense of leaving something alone and letting it drop. See this article for more.

every one -- The word translated as "everyone " is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

that -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

is -- (CW) This helping verb "is" seems to indicate that the verb is passive but it isn't. The verb was incorrectly translated from an active voice to a passive one.

indebted  - (WF) "Indebted  " is from a Greek verb that means "to owe," "to have to pay," and "to account for." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing." 

to -- This word "to" comes from the indirect object form of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object.

us. "To us" is the first person plural pronoun, "we," "us" as an indirect object.

And -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

lead   - The word translated as "lead" means "bring into" or "carry in." From these meanings, we get secondary meanings such as "introduce" and "to propose." Unlike many of the other verbs in the Lord's Prayer, it isn't in the form of a command, though it is translated that way in the KJV to match the form of the other verbs in the prayer. Its form is of something that "might" happen. It is a simple statement, not a request, about what the Father doesn't want to happen but the entire sentence comes across as a shy suggestion.

us - "Us" is the 1st person, plural, accusative pronoun. Jesus only uses this pronoun in seven verses this pronoun seven times, most often in the Lord's Prayer.

not --   The negative used here is the Greek negative of a subjective opinion, commands, verbs of possibility, and requests.  It applies to will, feeling, and thought. Used with verbs in the mood of possibility to express a prohibition.

into  -- The word translated as "to" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "in" (a position),  "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject, "up to" limits in measures, "until" in reference to time, "within" a time limit, and "for" a purpose or object. Used with the Greek "from" it means "from...to."

temptation; --- (CW)  The Greek word translated as "temptation" means a "despair," "testing," proving," and "trial" (but not a court trial, which is a different word. This word is first used in the Greek Old Testament and its meaning comes from the source Hebrew word. "Temptation" does not capture the word's specific meaning..

but deliver us from evil. -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

EACH WORD of NIV

missing "word"  -- (MW) The untranslated word "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

forgive -- " (CW) The word translated as "forgive" primarily means "to let go" or "to send away."  It can also mean "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. It has the sense of leaving something alone and letting it drop. See this article for more.

us  - "Us" is the first person plural pronoun, "we," "us" as an indirect object.

missing "these"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article," the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," and "those"). See this article for more. 

our -- The "our" is the plural possessive first-person pronoun. This pronoun follows the noun so "of ours."

sins; -- (CW) The word translated as "sins" means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin," having no sense of doing malicious evil in Greek. The best English translation is "mistake," "fault," or "failure" rather than what we commonly think of as the evils of "sin." See this article for more information and context.

for -- ---The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause." 

missing "ourselves" -- (MW)   "Ourselves" is the nominative case of the third-person, plural adjective that means "themselves," "ourselves," "the same," "one's true self," and "the soul" as opposed to the body. While other forms of this word are used as pronouns, this form is used for emphasis, since the subject pronoun is part of the verb.

we -- This is from the first-person, plural form of the verb.

also  - The Greek word translated as "also" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

forgive -- " (CW) The word translated as "forgive" primarily means "to let go" or "to send away."  It can also mean "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. It has the sense of leaving something alone and letting it drop. See this article for more.

everyone -- The word translated as "everyone " is the Greek adjective meaning "all," "the whole," "every," and similar ideas. When it is used as a noun, we would say "everything." As an adverb, it means "in every way," "on every side," and "altogether."

who -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source. It was added because the next verb was translated as active rather than as a participle.

sins - (WW, WF) "Indebted  " is from a Greek verb that means "to owe," "to have to pay," and "to account for." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing." This word doesn't mean "since." 

against --  (WW) This word "against" comes from the indirect object form of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English. The most common is a "to" for the English indirect object. However, the translator can choose other prepositions: "with,"  "in,"   "of,"  "as," "by," "for," "at," or "on" depending on the context. This word doesn't mean "word." 

us. "To us" is the first person plural pronoun, "we," "us" as an indirect object.

And -- The Greek word translated as "and" is used as the conjunction "and," but it also is used to add emphasis, "even," "also," and "just."

lead   - The word translated as "lead" means "bring into" or "carry in." From these meanings, we get secondary meanings such as "introduce" and "to propose." Unlike many of the other verbs in the Lord's Prayer, it isn't in the form of a command, though it is translated that way in the KJV to match the form of the other verbs in the prayer. Its form is of something that "might" happen. It is a simple statement, not a request, about what the Father doesn't want to happen but the entire sentence comes across as a shy suggestion.

us - "Us" is the 1st person, plural, accusative pronoun. Jesus only uses this pronoun in seven verses this pronoun seven times, most often in the Lord's Prayer.

not --   The negative used here is the Greek negative of a subjective opinion, commands, verbs of possibility, and requests.  It applies to will, feeling, and thought. Used with verbs in the mood of possibility to express a prohibition.

into  -- The word translated as "to" means "into" a place, "towards" as a direction, "in" (a position),  "as much as (of measure or limit)," "in regards to" a subject, "up to" limits in measures, "until" in reference to time, "within" a time limit, and "for" a purpose or object. Used with the Greek "from" it means "from...to."

temptation; --- (CW)  The Greek word translated as "temptation" means a "despair," "testing," proving," and "trial" (but not a court trial, which is a different word. This word is first used in the Greek Old Testament and its meaning comes from the source Hebrew word. "Temptation" does not capture the word's specific meaning..

but deliver us from evil. -- (OS) There is nothing in the Greek that can be translated as this in the source we use today but it does exist in the source that the KJV translators used.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

ἄφες  [73 verses](2nd sg aor imperat act) "Forgive"is aphiemi, which means "to let fall," "to send away," "give up," "hand over," "to let loose," "set free," "to get rid of," "to leave alone," "to pass by," "to permit," and "to send forth from oneself." The dative is the person it is left to. The accusative object is what is left, given away, etc. It can also mean to "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. With an accusative person as an object and an infinite, it means "to permit one."

ἡμῖν [15 verses](pron 1st pl masc/fem dat) "Us" is from hemin, which is the first person plural dative pronoun, "to us." A dative object of a preposition implies no movement but in a fixed position. Event occurs at a specified time or while the action was being performed.-

τὰς [821 verses](article pl fem acc)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones." Proper nouns do normally not take articles but they are needed when the noun ending cannot be changed to show the noun's role in the sentence as an object, indirect object, or genitive (possessive) form. However, the Greek article is very close to "this" so the purpose of an article like this can also be demonstrative. See this article.   -

ἁμαρτίας [28 verses](noun pl fem acc )"Sins" is hamartia, which means "missing the mark," "failure," "fault," and "error." Only in religious uses does it become "guilt" and "sin."

ἡμῶν [17 verses](pro 1st pl gen) "Our" is hemon, which is the plural possessive (genitive) form of the first-personal pronoun. A genitive object of a preposition means a movement away from something or a position away from something else. The time sense of a genitive object is that the event occurred within a specified time.

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

γὰρ [205 verses](partic) "For" comes from gar which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for," "since," and "as." In an abrupt question, it means "why" and "what." -

αὐτοὶ [32 verses](pron/adj pl masc nom) "Ourselves" is the nominative case of the third-person, plural adjective that means "themselves," ourselves," "the same," "one's true self," and "the soul" as opposed to the body. It also means "of one's own accord."  While other forms of this word are used as pronouns, this form is used for emphasis, since the subject pronoun is part of the verb. --

ἀφίομεν [73 verses](1st pl aor ind act) "Forgive" is aphiemi, which means "to let fall," "to send away," "give up," "hand over," "to let loose," "set free," "to get rid of," "to leave alone," "to pass by," "to permit," and "to send forth from oneself." The dative is the person it is left to. The accusative object is what is left, given away, etc. It can also mean to "remit" a debt or "excuse" a fault. With an accusative person as an object and an infinite, it means "to permit one."

παντὶ [212 verses] (adj sg masc dat) "Every one" is pas, which means "all," "the whole," "every," "anyone," "all kinds," and "anything." In the adverbial form, it means "every way," "on every side," "in every way," and "altogether."

ὀφείλοντι  [5 verses](part sg pres act masc dat) "that is indebted" is opheilô, which means "to owe," "to have to pay," "to be bound to render," "to be bound," "to be obliged," and "to account for."

ἡμῖν [15 verses](pron 1st pl masc/fem dat) "Us" is from hemin, which is the first person plural dative pronoun, "to us." A dative object of a preposition implies no movement but in a fixed position. Event occurs at a specified time or while the action was being performed.-

καὶ [1089 verses](conj/adv) "And" is kai, which is the conjunction joining phrases and clauses, "and," or "also." After words implying sameness, "as" (the same opinion as you). Used in series, joins positive with negative "Not only...but also." Also used to give emphasis, "even," "also," and "just." In a series, it can be translated as "not only...but also." After words implying sameness "as."

μὴ [447 verses](conj) "Not" is me , which is the negative used in prohibitions and expressions of doubt meaning "not" and "no." The negative, μή, rejects, is relative,  and subjective. It is used with verbs of subjective action:  thinking, feeling, seeing, etc. It is used in imperative and subjunctive clauses because both express opinions. With pres. or aor. subjunctive, it is used in a warning or statement of fear, "take care." The combination of ἵνα μή means "lest." The combination of ὅτι μή, means "except." Used before tis with an imperative to express a will or wish for something in independent sentences and, with subjunctives, to express prohibitions. It is used with infinitives that express a purpose. When used with verbs of physical action, its sense is that "not wanting" or "thinking" something, not that it isn't done or thought.  With these verbs, the sense is rejecting the action, rather than simply not doing it. With the verb "to be," the sense is "doesn't seem." When a negative precedes the verb, it affects the whole clause. When it precedes other words, its force is limited to those words. Used with an imperative to express a will or wish. Used in negative conditional "when/if/whoever" clauses. With "have," the sense is "lacks" or "wants."

εἰσενέγκῃς  [3 verses](2nd sg aor subj act) "Lead" is from eisphero, which means "to carry in," "to bring in," "to contribute," "to bring into," "to introduce," "to bring forward," "to propose," "to carry with one," "to bring with," "to draw a break," "to drink [water]," "to sweep along [as a river]," and "to nominate."

ἡμᾶς [7 verse](pron 1st pl masc/fem acc) "Us" is hemas, which is "us," the 1st person, plural, accusative pronoun.

εἰς [325 verses](prep) "Into" is eis, which means "into (of place)," "up to (of time)," "until (of time)," "in" (a position),  "as much as (of measure or limit)," "as far as (of measure or limit)," "towards (to express relation)," "in regard to (to express relation)," "of an end or limit," and "for (of purpose or object)." Used with ek, it means "from...to."

πειρασμόνv[8 verses](noun sg masc acc) "Temptation" is peirasmos, which means a "trial", "worry," and only by extension "temptation." It does not mean "testing." This word only appears in the Bible and in Christian writings after. In the Septuagint Greek Old Testament, where this word first occurs, it is from the Hebrew massâ (מַסָּה), which means "despair," "testing," "proving," and "trial."

parallel comparison

This verse condenses and combines the versions in Matthew (Matthew 6:12Matthew 6:13). It also changes the complementary idea in Matthew of letting go of our debts in exchange for letting go our debts forgive for a broader idea, that of having our mistakes let go. 

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