Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged,

Spoken to
Apostles

Jesus addresses the apostles.

KJV

Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

NIV

Luke 9:25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?

LISTENERS HEARD

Because what person is helped, gaining the whole society however destroying himself or being damaged. 

MY TAKE

The world is temporary, but we want to preserve ourselves.

GREEK ORDER

τί γὰρ               ὠφελεῖται   ἄνθρωπος κερδήσας τὸν κόσμον ὅλον   ἑαυτὸν  δὲ          ἀπολέσας     ζημιωθείς;
what Because  is helped,    person     gaining       the society whole himself however destroying or being damaged. 

LOST IN TRANSLATION

In this verse, the reference is to the "himself after "lose/destroy" demonstrating that the "life" in the previous verse is best translated as "self."  The word translated as "lose" is much stronger. It means "destroy" except when referring to lost items. There are three verbs here, a"gain," "lose," and "cast./forfeit" that are translated as active verbs, but they are verbal adjectives, ending in "ing" in English. The last word is the only unusual word in the verse, and more of its meaning are financial, but itz primary meaning is being damaged.

The NIV version of this verse is a paraphrase, not a translation, especially the first part.

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
6
  • IW - Inserted Word -- The "if" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "gain" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "and" should be something more like "but."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "destroy" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "cast" should be something more like "damaged."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "cast" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "away" doesn't exist in the source.
# NIV TRANSLATION ISSUES
11
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common word usually translated as "good."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This  "good"   is not an adjective but a verb.
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "it" doesn't exist in the source.
  • CW --Confusing Word -- This is not the common preposition usually translated as "for."
  • WW --Wrong Word -- The word translated as "someone " should be something more like "man."
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "gain" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "and" should be something more like "but."
  • IW - Inserted Word-- The "yet" doesn't exist in the source.
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "lose" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • WF -- Wrong Form -  This "forfeit" is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "
  • IP - Inserted Phrase-- The "their very" doesn't exist in the source.
EACH WORD of KJV

For --The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause." 

what -- The Greek word translated as "any" in the singular means "anyone," "someone,"  "something," and "anything." The same forms are used both for the masculine or feminine so "anyone" works best for a person. In the plural, it means "everyone," "some," "they," and "those." Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who," "what," or even "why."

is - -- This helping verb indicates the present tense and passive voice of the verb. It is used here to form the present, progressive tense, which doesn't exist in Greek but which can smooth the flow of English sentences.

a -- There is no indefinite article in Greek, but when a noun doesn't have a definite article, the indefinite article can be added in English translation.

man -- The Greek word for "man" means "man," "person" and "humanity" in the singular. In the plural, it means "men," "people," and "peoples." 

advantaged -- The  Greek word translated as "advantaged" has three related but different meanings.  Jesus uses several of them at different times. The most common is "to owe," "to be bound," and "to be obliged." The next means "to strengthen" and to enlarge," and "to increase." The final one means "to help," "to aid," "to succor," "to be of use or service," "to enrich," and "to benefit.

if -- (IW) - The "if" doesn't exist in the source. e.

he -- This is from the third-person, singular form of the verb.

gain -- (WF) The word translated as "gain" means, interestingly enough, to gain in the sense of gain an advantage and, interestingly enough, "to derive a profit." Jesus only uses it four times, consistently with sense of "benefit" or "win." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "  

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

whole  -- The word translated as "whole" means something that is "complete" or "the whole" of something, and can mean "the whole universe" as well as being "safe and sound" in being kept "whole." It is used as an adverb, which can mean "wholly," "really," "entirely," or "generally speaking."

world, -- Jesus uses the word translated as "world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

and -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "and" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.

lose -- (WF) The word translated as "lose" means to "destroy" or "demolish" and means "perish" in the passive. However, it can also mean to "lose" things. Its literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from." It is often used in the middle voice to describe people losing or destroying themselves. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "  

himself, -- "Himself" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," and so on. " When used in the possessive, it has the sense of "his own."

or -- "Or" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "or" but serves as "than" in a comparison. The same word could also be the exclamation "hi" or the adverb meaning "in truth."

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

cast - (WW, WF) The word translated as "cast" means "to damage," "to cause loss," "to fine," and "to penalize." It is passive.. In the passive form it can mean "to be fined," and "to suffer a financial loss." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "  

away? -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

EACH WORD of NIV

What -- The Greek word translated as "any" in the singular means "anyone," "someone,"  "something," and "anything." The same forms are used both for the masculine or feminine so "anyone" works best for a person. In the plural, it means "everyone," "some," "they," and "those." Jesus often uses it to start a question so it means "who," "what," or even "why."

good -- (CW, WF) The  Greek word translated as "good" has three related but different meanings.  Jesus uses several of them at different times. The most common is "to owe," "to be bound," and "to be obliged." The next means "to strengthen" and to enlarge," and "to increase." The final one means "to help," "to aid," "to succor," "to be of use or service," "to enrich," and "to benefit." This is not the word usually translated as "good." This is not an adjective but a verb.

is - -- This helping verb indicates the present tense and passive voice of the verb. It is used here to form the present, progressive tense, which doesn't exist in Greek but which can smooth the flow of English sentences.

it -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

for --(CW) The word translated as "for" introduces a reason or explanation so "because" and, in questions, "why." However, since this word always appears in the second position, it is more like an aside remark like, "consequently" or "as a cause."  This is not the preposition usually translated as "for."

someone -- (WW) The Greek word for "man" means "man," "person" and "humanity" in the singular. In the plural, it means "men," "people," and "peoples." 

to -- (WF) This "to" is added because the infinitive form   requires a "to" in English but the following verb is not an infinitive.

gain -- The word translated as "gain" means, interestingly enough, to gain in the sense of gain an advantage and, interestingly enough, "to derive a profit." Jesus only uses it four times, consistently with sense of "benefit" or "win." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. "  

 

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, "the," which usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more. 

 

whole  -- The word translated as "whole" means something that is "complete" or "the whole" of something, and can mean "the whole universe" as well as being "safe and sound" in being kept "whole." It is used as an adverb, which can mean "wholly," "really," "entirely," or "generally speaking."

world, -- Jesus uses the word translated as "world" to mean "the world order," and "civilization," specifically its "rulers," or its organization. Today, we use the word "society" or "regime" in this sense. More about this word in this article about related words.

and -- (WW) The Greek word translated as "and" means "but," "however," and "on the other hand." It joins phrases in an adversarial way. Since it always falls in the second position, translating it as "however" often captures its feeling better.

yet -- (IW) This word is not in the Greek source.

lose -- (WF) The word translated as "lose" means to "destroy" or "demolish" and means "perish" in the passive. However, it can also mean to "lose" things. Its literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from." It is often used in the middle voice to describe people losing or destroying themselves. This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. " 

or -- "Or" is translated from a Greek word that means primarily "or" but serves as "than" in a comparison. The same word could also be the exclamation "hi" or the adverb meaning "in truth."

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

forfeit - (WF) The word translated as "cast" means "to damage," "to cause loss," "to fine," and "to penalize." It is passive.. In the passive form it can mean "to be fined," and "to suffer a financial loss." This is not an active verb but a participle, a verbal adjective, ending with "-ing. " 

their very -- (IP) There is nothing that can be translated as this phrase in the Greek source.

self? -- "Self" is a special reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," and so on. " When used in the possessive, it has the sense of "his own."

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

τί  [252 verses]( irreg sg neut nom) "What " is tis, which can mean "someone," "something," "any one," "everyone," "they [indefinite]," "many a one," "whoever," "anyone," "anything," "some sort," "some sort of," "each," "any," "the individual," "such," and so on. In a question, it can mean "who," "why," or "what." Plural, "who are" is τίνες ἐόντες.  It has specific meanings with certain prepositions, διὰ τί; for what reason? ἐκ τίνος; from what cause? ἐς τί; to what point?  to what end?

γὰρ [205 verses](partic) "For" comes from gar which is the introduction of a clause explaining a reason or explanation: "for," "since," and "as." In an abrupt question, it means "why" and "what."

ὠφελεῖται [8 verses] (verb 3rd sg pres ind mp) "Is advantaged" is opheleo, a Greek word with three related but different meanings. The most common is "to owe," "to be bound," and "to be obliged." The next means "to strengthen" and to enlarge," and "to increase." The final one means "to help," "to aid," "to succor," "to be of use or service," "to enrich," and "to benefit."  

ἄνθρωπος [209 verses](noun sg masc nom) "Man" is anthropos, which is "man," and, in plural, "mankind." It also means "humanity" and that which is human and opposed to that which is animal or inanimate.

κερδήσας   [8 verses](part sg aor act masc nom) "Gain" is from kerdainô, which means "to gain", "to derive profit", "to spare or save oneself," and to "gain an advantage." In a negative sense, it means "to reap a disadvantage from a thing."

τὸν [821 verses](article sg masc acc)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").   It usually precedes a noun or changes the word it precedes (adjective, infinitive, participle, etc.) to act like a noun. When not preceding a a word that can become a noun, takes the meaning of "the one" or, in the plural, "the ones." Proper nouns do normally not take articles but they are needed when the noun ending cannot be changed to show the noun's role in the sentence as an object, indirect object, or genitive (possessive) form. However, the Greek article is very close to "this" so the purpose of an article like this can also be demonstrative.There is no vocative definite article, (despite being shown in Perseus). When the vocative is meant, no article is used or they used ω or εSee this article.  

κόσμον  [63 verses](noun sg masc acc) "The world"is kosmos, which mean "order," "good order," "ruler," "civilization," "world order," "universe," and "the world of men." It is a form of the is verb kosmeô, which means "to order," "to arrange," "to rule," "to adorn" (especially women), and "to equip." It especially means controlling and arranging an army.

ὅλον. [23 verses](adj sg masc acc) "Whole" is holos, which means "the whole," "entire," "complete," "complete in all its parts" and "the universe." As an adverb, it means "wholly," "altogether," "entirely," "on the whole," "speaking generally," "utter," "actually," and "really."

ἑαυτὸν  [75 verses] (adj sg masc acc) "Himself" is heautou, is a reflexive pronoun that means "himself," "herself," "itself" "themselves," and "ourselves." It is not the common pronoun meaning simply "he," "she," "them," etc. In the genitive form, it has the sense of "his own."

δὲ [446 verses](conj) "But" is de which means "but" and "on the other hand." It is the particle that joins sentences in an adversarial way but can also be an explanation of indirect cause ("so"). In an  "if" (εἰ ) clause or temporal "when" (ὅταν) clause the sense is "if/when... then." In a series begun by men, its means "on the other hand." In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet." After an interruption, "so then." It can also be an explanation of cause ("so").  When used with a conditional starting a clause, the sense is "if/when...then." When used with a particle meaning "indeed" the sense is "on one hand...on the other hand." In a listing, the sense is "then" or "yet." After an interruption, "so then."

ἀπολέσας [43 verses](part sg aor act masc nom) "Lose" is apollymi, which means "to demolish," "to lay waste," "to lose" things, "to perish," "to die," "to cease to exist," and "to be undone." Its literal meaning from its root is "destroy from" or "ruin from."

[92 verses](conj/adv)  "Or" is e, which is a particle used as a disjunctive, "either," "or," , or as a comparative, "than" or "rather than." It is (explam) also an exclamation, "hi!" and an adverb,(adv)  meaning "in truth" and "of a surety." It is used with comparative forms of adjective or with positive adjective implying a comparison.

ζημιωθείς[3 verses](part sg aor pass masc nom) "Caste" is zêmioô, which means "to damage," "to cause loss," "to fine," and "to penalize." In the passive form it means "to be fined," and "to suffer a financial loss." 

parallel comparison

The Matthew version uses the Greek "self", translated there as "soul," which is the same as the word translated as "life" in the previous verse.

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