John 12:23 The hour is come

Spoken to
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Jesus is told by Philip and Andrew that some Greeks who came to the Passover have come to see him. Jesus's words, however, seems more for the Apostles so we seem to be missing some context.

KJV

John 12:23 The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

NIV

John 12:23 The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified.

LISTENERS HEARD

It has started, the hour when the son of the man should be recognized.

MY TAKE

Jesus saw other possible futures.

LOST IN TRANSLATION

The word translated as "come" also means "start," which makes sense for a time period, Its tense is the past perfect, something completed in the past, "has come" or "has started." The KJV gets the tense wrong, but more modern Bibles fix it. However, the KJV gets the form of "glorified" correctly "should be glorified," or "might be glorified" where the verb is in the form of a possibility. All the modern Gospels disguise this fact, translating it as a future certainty, "to be glorified." This Greek indicates that, at this point in the story, Jesus saw other possibilities. The word translated as "glorified" actually means something more like "recognized."

# KJV TRANSLATION ISSUES
3
  • WT - Wrong Tense -- The word translated as "is" should be something more like "has."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "man" is not shown in the English translation.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "glorified" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "for" is not the common word usually translated as "for."
  • MW - Missing Word -- The word "the" before "man" is not shown in the English translation.
  • WW - Wrong Word -- The word translated as "to" should be something more like "should."
  • CW - Confusing Word -- The "glorified" does not capture the specific meaning of the word.
EACH WORD of KJV

The -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

hour   - The word translated as "hour" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour."

is -- (WT)  This helping verb indicates the present tense of the verb. However, the tense here is the past perfect, so the word should be "has."

come, -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

that -- The word translated as "that" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," "when," or as a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" or "because."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child."

of -- This word "of"  comes from the genitive case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession.

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

man -- The Greek word for "of man" in the singular means "person" and "humanity" and "people" and "peoples" in the plural.

should -- This helping verb in English comes from the form of the Greek verb that indicates a possibility. We would usually say "might" or "should" in English.

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

glorified. -- (CW)-- The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The noun form, usually translated biblically as "glory," has the sense of reputation, but Jesus always uses it as a shining reputation so "eminence."   More about this word in this article.

EACH WORD of NIV

 

The -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

hour   - The word translated as "hour" means a period of time equal to the one-twelfth part of the daylight, like an "hour."

has-- This helping verb "has" indicates that the verb is the tense indicating an action completed in the past.

come, -- The word translated as "come" primarily means "to start out" but Christ usually uses it to mean "come" but not always. It indicates movement, especially its beginning, without indicating a direction toward or away from anything, so it works either as "start," "come," or "go," but it is more like our phrase "being underway." Our English word "show up" captures both the "start" and "come" ideas. See this article for more.

for -- (CW) The word translated as "for" is an adverb "in that place," "there," "where," "when," or as a conjunction that starts a subordinate clause  "that," "when," "in order that" or "because."

the -- The word translated as "the" is the Greek definite article, without a noun, it has the sense of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those") than the English "the." See this article for more.

Son -- The word translated as "son" more generally means "child."

of -- This word "of"  comes from the genitive case of the following word that requires the addition of a preposition in English.  The most common is the "of" of possession.

missing "the"  -- (MW) The untranslated word is the Greek definite article,"the," which usually precedes a noun and, without a noun, takes the meaning of "the one." The Greek article is much closer to our demonstrative pronouns ("this," "that," "these," "those"). See this article for more. 

man -- The Greek word for "of man" in the singular means "person" and "humanity" and "people" and "peoples" in the plural.

to -- (WW) This is not a preposition, but a helping verb in English. It is needed to form of the Greek verb that indicates a possibility. We would usually say "might" or "should" in English.

be -- This helping verb "be" indicates that the verb is passive. Helping or auxiliary verbs are needed to translate the Greek verb forms into English.

glorified. -- (CW)-- The Greek term translated as "glorify" is a word that primarily means "to imagine" and "to expect." It also means "to honor" in a sense. However, the word that it comes closest to in English is "to recognize" since that word captures both the mental "expectation" and "praising" sense of the word. The noun form, usually translated biblically as "glory," has the sense of reputation, but Jesus always uses it as a shining reputation so "eminence."   More about this word in this article.

COMPARISON: GREEK to KJV

Ἐλήλυθεν [198 verses](3rd sg perf ind act) "Is come" is  erchomai, which means "to start," "to set out," "to come," "to go," and any kind of motion. It means both "to go" on a journey and "to arrive" at a place.

 [821 verses](article sg fem nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").  

ὥρα [37 verses](noun sg fem nom ) "Hour" is hora, which means "any period," "season," (especially springtime), "year' (generally), "climate" (as determined by seasons), "duration," "the twelve equal parts into which the period of daylight was divided," "the fitting time" (for a task).

ἵνα [134 verses](adv/conj) "That" is hina, which means "in that place," "there," "where," "when,"  but when beginning a phrase "that," "in order that," "when," and "because."

δοξασθῇ [18 verses] (3rd sg aor subj pass) "Should be glorified" is doxazo, which primarily means "to think", "to expect", "to imagine," or "to suppose." Secondarily, it means "to magnify" or "to extol," which is where we get the "glorify" used most often in NT the translation. The English term "to recognize" carries the same sense of both seeing a person in the mind and honoring them.

[821 verses](article sg masc nom)  "The" is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the"). 

υἱὸς [158 verses](noun sg masc nom​) "The Son" is huios, which means a "son," and more generally, a "child." It is used generally to refer to any male descendant.

τοῦ [821 verses](article sg masc gen)  Untranslated is the Greek definite article, hos, ("the").

ἀνθρώπου [209 verses](noun sg masc gen) "Of man" is from anthropos, which is "man," and, in plural, "mankind." It also means "humanity" and that which is human and opposed to that which is animal or inanimate.

Possible Symbolic Meaning
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